How are you?
Just a little suggestion for Aymeric to get rid of the NG1s that are ruining this game and the game engine. For those who don't understand, I'm talking about those beasts who have 1 NG but are either rugby players with 99 in power, freestylers with 99 in technique, bodyguards with 99 in marking or even Usain Bolt with 99 in placement or speed: characteristics that are absolutely useless or insufficient in defence and football when they're not part of a repertoire of skills. A rugby player who can't shoot the ball is a pain in the arse when it comes to positioning himself for the offside system, but he's also a player who's poorly positioned and who gets in the way of other defenders as well as making lots of unnecessary fouls. I won't go into detail about the others, as you've already understood.

In today's tactics, a player with an NG of 1 has no impact apart from his NG. So the idea is to force managers to give him a minimum of training for the position he occupies!

The proposal is as follows: below a certain threshold, a player's incapacity could become an obstacle for the team.

The threshold: this could be a percentage of the team's average NG.
The inability: the player would continue to contribute in his characteristic but would have a huge negative impact on all the other characteristics

I look forward to your feedback!

Hi,
I have to admit that I was thinking the same thing as you until recently. In fact, since last season, I've started testing what this type of player could bring and I think it's a very good thing.
Let's not forget that we're playing a game here, not an irl game. These players bring a lot of additional and interesting tactical possibilities.
So, as you'll have understood, I'm against your proposal.
Enjoy the game

I've been fed up with all this marking and other things for a while now
A defender has to be complete and not just mark a player, especially in modern football

i agree with you 1,000 times, Guan. I've always campaigned against this type of player. To use these players is to take the easy way out.

Let's assume that style players will be suppressed...

1/The NG would be the major factor and therefore prices will be...
2/The scores will be known in advance, if it is the NG which is in favour no NG 80 would be better than a NG 85 or more (the tactics would be useless apart from attacking in the axis or blocking your corridors...
3/The interest in playing would be minimal as you don't have much to do during a match...
4/ The old VF will appear and there will be 10 better clubs ... 100 average clubs and 500 weak clubs

And lots of other things... do you prefer that?

Without wishing to be in absolute opposition, let me put forward a counter-argument.

You mention the advantages of these special players, but you gloss over the disadvantages.
Having such players often 'locks' you into a style. As a result, a shrewd tactician on the other side will be able to put in place a strategy that will defeat you.
For marking players, it's simply a question of leaving nothing that could be marked. 0 attackers, to put it simply. And believe me, it's quite possible to have 400 in attack with 0 attackers. But that requires a mastery of playing styles. And reflection when you put a team together.
So I have the feeling that what we're looking for here is ease. And that's a bit of a shame.
On the contrary, I find it extremely interesting to have to play with styles to manoeuvre your opponent. It's clearly not as easy as I've read.

Nevertheless, it's true that the lack of correlation between style of play and fatigue makes the battle a bit complex, and seems to favour the very stylish teams.

So, on the contrary, I think that these players have their advantages, but also their limitations. So it's a strategy to think about. And just as well, this is a management game :)
But yes, it's true that it doesn't really fit with IRL

I agree with Guantanamera's proposal. As for limiting the contribution of this type of player, I had proposed something quite simple, which I'll take the liberty of putting forward again: limit a player's style bonus contribution to his NG on the pitch. So a player with a ng of 1 could contribute 1 in style bonus (therefore ineffective), a player with a ng of 50 a bonus of 50, etc ....

We could always develop players for a particular style, and take advantage of that, without falling into the excessive players we see at the moment, in my opinion.

Other points to consider:

• Over the last few months, there has already been a drop in the performance of marking players and the points provided by the style bonus. You really have to think twice before introducing a marking player into a line-up, given the huge loss of NG compared to the drop in stats on an opposing striker, who can quickly counter him if he's reactive.

• I've spoken to several managers who play 'style' and I've seen it for myself: apart from a few flash moves, you're much better off with a NG that holds up rather than an all-in on the bonus... which is what it is: a bonus, with team NG remaining essential. This can be seen in these teams, where the focus is on a very large NG for positions where there is no style player.

• I get the impression that 'dual style' players are really very situational. They're still rare in a team, and most of them get very little playing time. They make a contribution in specific cases, but the successive reductions in the style bonus have probably made managers sit up and take notice, and they sometimes get rid of them without any further ado.

• As far as I'm concerned, I train style players in certain positions, who I'll capture with an NG of around 50. The style bonus I'll get from them will be less, especially with this generation less boosted than the previous one. But I think the team will be more balanced. And I'm also anticipating future drops in the style bonus, given that there have already been several in the space of a few months. I may or may not be wrong in my analysis. It doesn't really matter.

In short, I think (and I could be completely wrong) that the MDJ, through his discreet but real changes to the style bonuses, is trying to get the style managers to modify their team construction, without turning everything upside down.

I quite agree with the proposal too. On paper, the idea of styles of play is interesting, but we end up in some pretty absurd situations by having taken their use to extremes, like it doesn't really make sense to have to vary your style of play 10-20 times per match to adjust to your opponent. Especially as these styles are not affected by stamina.

Maybe something needs to be looked at again: these styles of play should be de-indexed from the 'surpluses', and their impact should be at least independent of the player's instructions.

To complete the picture, we could imagine that a bonus could not exceed 10% of the current player's match rating. I say 10% but it could be another value. This system would have the advantage of not changing the way styles of play work too much.

Me ce qui me choque comment c'est possible d'avoir plus de 400 en statistiques attaque alors que les joueur ne sont pas formé en attaque. I've been told about the impact but there you go....

Fontenit85:

Moi ce qui me choque comment c'est possible d'avoir plus de 400 en statistiques attaque alors que les joueur ne sont pas formé en attaque. On m'a parler de l'impact mais voilà....

And yet, the answer is extremely simple...
I invite you to browse through this section of the VF manual to find some of the answers: #manual?page=38

Then, perhaps one of your comrades in crime can answer your question. There are some very good tacticians in there.

If we go down this road, your defenders have 1 in marking, so they always leave the opposing attackers alone, your ATC has 1 in passing, so he should miss all his passes, and your flankers have 1 in positioning, so they should always be out of position

It's a game of statistics that has absolutely nothing to do with reality. Otherwise, there are things that need to be changed in the game.

You forgot the MDs and MOCs with 1 in a hurry full of studs in the middle the guys can't run 😂

It's true that having a whole team of NG99s makes more sense than tactical diversity with different styles of play, but it's always the same guys anyway

I was a goalkeeper 80 defence/80 positioning /0 tackling/50 power/50 passing I stopped balls
I was a striker 50 power/ 10 speed/ 70 technique/60 pass/70 attack I put a goal car
😁

Styles are the best thing that could have happened to the game
Player styles have opened up a number of strategic possibilities for diversification. Each style has its own particularity and the interest in being able to counter/counter it or make it a strong point is an integral part of the tactical aspect of the game.
In my opinion, the only variable that could/should evolve is to index it to player fatigue.

Guanta's proposal is not to annihilate game styles but to make them more realistic.
When I read that VF is a game and should not or cannot resemble reality, then the Carrots topic should be closed and banned... But then, apparently, the match engine would have to be realistic... Look for the mistake.

COUCOU GUANTA
Ta remarque est pertinente comme souvent, il y a plus de 1an j'avais dis que ce systeme de style de jeux avec son bonus enorme posait 1soucis sur le game play car non seulement il impact le mdm en mêmeme ou tu vas choisir de mettre 1 peu d'endu en exemple et faire baisser 1peux de ng alors que d'autre cote avec le style de jeux aucune perte physique ressentie en match.
Mais la ou cela impact le plus le game play c'est l'attraction des enchères car le prix des joueurs est juste degeulasse, normal j'envie de dire quand tu vois des ng 90.99 partir a des sommes de moins de 20m parce que inutile j'envie de dire puisque en match ces joueurs la se font faire défoncer par des ng1 ....
il fut 1 temps quand aymeric a mis ce style en place où c'était 100a150 de statts grand max et ou tu pouvait se permettre de donner 1 peux d'att a votre défenseur pour donner 1 exemple et la ca donnait envie de rester devant le match.
la tu prends des ng 1 en match uniquement base sur le style de jeux, ben le membre n'a pas besoin de se connecter pour faire ses changements du a la fatigue, le style fait tout et tu perdz rien
ps I have 1 small comment to make

Lebaygue: La propo de Guanta,n est pas d annihiler les styles de jeu mais de les rendre plus réalistes.
Quand je lis que VF est un jeu et ne doit pas ou ne peut pas ressembler a la réalité,il faudrait ,dans ce cas la,fermer et interdire le topic Carottes...Mais la,apparemment,faudrait que le moteur de match,lui,soit réaliste...Cherchez l erreur.

People who complain about MDM on carrot topics want logical results, not realistic ones.
VF is absolutely not a realistic game.
In realism alone, LDC finals matches would be played as double-headers, not as single matches, which means TAB sessions galore that make the cup format more like a draw than a winner-takes-all confrontation.

At first, I thought these players were a bit out of touch and I was against them, but I've now got to grips with them and I can see that, as some people have said above, these players are no guarantee of success, far from it:

In particular, they have 3 major disadvantages:

1. in the course of a match: if you're not connected for 90 minutes of your match, if you put on one or worse 2 and your opponent is connected, you're almost dead (I mean you're dead facing an opponent who knows a bit about the game and who fields a team at about the same level as yours)

2. in managing your squad

And for those who advocate rebalancing, I think what's needed is simply for the impact of a characteristic not to be linear but logarithmic.

In other words, if you have a player who has 30 in one characteristic and 60 in another, the gain in NG (or style impact) would be greater by adding 1 pt to the characteristic at 30 than to the characteristic at 60.

And if that happens, to open the Vfstore free of charge for a few days to allow everyone to rebalance their players if they feel like it in light of this new situation

Magpie: Sans vouloir être dans l'opposition absolue, laissez moi apporter un contre argumentaire.

Vous enoncez les avantages de ces joueurs spéciaux, mais vous occultez les désavantages.
Avoir de tels joueurs "enferme" bien souvent dans un style. Par conséquent, un tacticien avisé en face saura mettre en place une strategie qui vous mettra en échec.
Pour les joueurs marquage, il s'agira simplement de ne rien laisser qui pourrait subir le marquage. 0 attaquant pour faire simple. Et croyez moi, c'

No, you've got the wrong idea.

At no point do I claim to have done with styles. I'm not a great manager of this game, but anyone can understand how styles work, so don't go overboard. What makes me bristle is having players who only serve the style of play and not the team.

For a team with an average NG of 90, you'd only need players with an NG of 75 and a well-developed characteristic (like M. Yildiz). As a result, ALL players would have to be trained in this style of play in order to dramatically increase their stats. ManCity can't start playing like Atletico from one second to the next. Yet, as things stand, replacing a 99 pass player with a 99 power player can do it. The change in style of play has to be penalising AND complicated.

I'm an advocate of playing styles. But not the excesses that result from them.

myforsans: Moi aussi au début je trouvais ces joueurs un peu "décalés" et j'étais contre mais je m'y suis mis et je constate que comme dit plus haut par certains ces joueurs ne sont pas une garantie de réussite loin de là :

Notamment ils ont 3 gros désavantages :

1. dans le déroulement d'un match : si tu n'es pas connecté les 90 minutes de ton match si tu en mets un ou pire 2 et qu'en face ton adversaire est connecté tu es quasi mort (je veux dire tu es mort face à un adversaire (qui connait u

Just Myfo, on one point, we're talking about "improvement projects", not "whining", that's another well-known topic.
Nobody has any control over the eventual implementation of the few projects that Aymeric is working on, and everyone knows that it won't be done gently.
This topic is useful for highlighting a difference in the community's point of view...
Then, of course, in order to keep up, all the 'big' cartels have had to step into the breach and are going to do their utmost to defend their visions under the pretext of extraordinary tactics.

Everyone will defend their steak, some will defend their logic, others their interests.

I remember a time when there were styles of play that had an impact on the stats without having players around who weren't (Rocco Siffredi with a dick but no arms or legs, the career wouldn't have been the same) and supposedly, according to Aymeric, that unbalanced the mdm (almost 10 years to realise it already)... and now these players aren't unbalancing the engine?

If you want to get rid of this type of player, you need to reduce the impact of style considerably.
That a stylish player is less interesting than a normal player who prefers to provoke, go deep etc..

Having been around for years, I find that style has lost a bit of its logic.
I sometimes see defensive 1 5 4 schemes or other..

Having known VF where you had a wide tactical choice without style, I think that this one is a big contribution but has become a priority ahead of the rest and that's good
That's a shame.

Oh no, don't break my playing style! It's the only way I can compete with managers loaded with cash. 😅

Really, that would be great

Leave the styles to us.
Nerf them again if you want, the idea of endurance to be taken into account is far from bad!

But let us enjoy it for God's sake. It's an interesting and fun mechanic. It makes preparation and matches exciting.

At the last discord, Aymeric said that he would limit the impact of under-trained players...the question is, when?

Azby: Laissez nous les styles.
Nerfez les encore si vous voulez, l'idée de l'endurance à prendre en compte est loin d'être mauvaise !

Mais laissez nous kiffer bon sang. C'est une mécanique intéressante et ludique. Elle rend la préparation et les matchs passionnants.

At the same time, everyone who has spoken on this subject has said that they like the styles. Nobody has said anything about doing away with styles, or else I've missed it.

Demi-cerveau: En même temps, toutes les personnes qui sont intervenues sur ce sujet ont toutes dit qu'elles aimaient les styles. Personne n'a parlé de supprimer les styles ou alors j'ai raté l'info.

Not all of them, no, Arteta for example.
But yes, I'm grumbling.

Azby: Laissez nous les styles.
Nerfez les encore si vous voulez, l'idée de l'endurance à prendre en compte est loin d'être mauvaise !

Mais laissez nous kiffer bon sang. C'est une mécanique intéressante et ludique. Elle rend la préparation et les matchs passionnants.

It's been said above, but the aim here is not to propose that they be removed, but to make them a little more consistent. Why not index them on the player's grade or at least on physique.

Galywat: Après cela a été dit un peu plus haut mais le but ici n'est pas de proposer leur suppression mais de les rendre un peu plus cohérent. Pourquoi pas en les indexant sur la note du joueur (mais pas vraiment la ng du coup) ou a minima sur le physique.

Indexation on the physique I support.
But yes, I do like styles a bit too much ^^

Yes, yes, 10,000 times yes, precisely because I love styles, it's really the heart of the use of tactics in the game. I literally have a team built to play with styles, with almost all my players able to contribute a bonus in one or more styles depending on their position on the pitch (whether through specific over-training, or because their position is naturally versatile, typically the AS). This allows me to get style bonuses of around 100-150, while still having an overall NG of around 75-80, and sometimes being able to compete with teams that are much stronger on paper. And I have to say that nothing annoys me more than seeing a guy (usually full NG 99) ruin all that by putting a fucking alien on the pitch with 2 carac 99s and nothing else. So a big yes, especially for half-brain's proposal to index the impact on styles according to the NG on the field!

Bastoun_34: Oui, oui, 10000 fois oui, justement parce que j'adore les styles, c'est vraiment le cœur de l'usage de la tactique dans le jeu. J'ai littéralement une équipe construite pour jouer avec les styles, avec quasiment tous mes joueurs pouvant apporter un bonus dans un ou plusieurs styles en fonction de leur consigne sur le terrain (que ce soit avec des surentrainements spécifiques, ou bien parce que leur poste est naturellement polyvalent, typiquement les AS). Ça me permet d'aller chercher des bo

So what makes you angry is that you're up against a guy who's "responded" to your tactics? o_o

And what's stopping you from changing your style of play to put the alien in line in the wind?
It's really quite simple. You'd even be forcing your opponents to ask themselves whether they should keep that player or not, because you've probably put 99 points in the wind...

In fact, all you have to do is think about it and get around the obstacle. I stand by what I say: these players have advantages, but they also have disadvantages. It's up to you to use them to your advantage. And don't just grumble because there's an obstacle :)

But it's perfectly normal for opponents to adapt, that's the heart of the game. It's just the inelegance of the method that I object to. In my eyes, it's a grosbill method, to use a term from the world of RPGs (the grosbill being the archetypal character developed outside of any roleplay or verisimilitude just to maximise his stats and skills: that's precisely what these NG1 players are). The opponent would counter by changing his particular instructions or tactics, and there would be nothing to say. But fielding one or more double 99 mutants (knowing that there are often 4 or 5 in the team to cover all possible situations) is certainly effective from a stat point of view, but where's the strategy in that?

Yes, you may be right in principle.
But in that case, Skyz's argument holds up even better to your reasoning: what do you do with ATCs that have 1 in pass? MOCs with 1 speed? DFLs with 1 in placement? The list goes on.

So, on the contrary, the user is simply adapting, and the NG, displayed at 1, is not the alpha and omega of the game. On the contrary, it's very clever to play with the stats, and not with the common 'build'. It's all the same. It's just that the NG is set to 1. And I repeat, it's dangerous for your game :)

If we come to this debate, I suggest that we include the idea of capturing a player's maximum mark for his potential, because as much as it is abnormal to have a global mark of 1, it is abnormal to have an infinite number of 99 ng ..

iMcCarthy77: Si on vient sur ce débat là je propose d’y inclure de caper la note maximale d’un joueur à son potentiel car autant il est anormal d’avoir des note globale 1 il est anormal d’avoir une infinité de 99 ng …

hi imc
no club has 1infinite 99de ng for the following simple reason
suspension : injury
players with high ng are already impacted on stamina because they have to sacrifice stamina for ng you can't have 1 player with 50d endu and 99 of ng so the members are already making that sacrifice unlike the 1 of ng imc.
guanta isn't proposing to do away with playstyles but to reduce the playstyle bonus in the same way as he reduced ng, otherwise it wouldn't be fair for game play.
everyone's talking about matches but I get the impression that no one gives a damn about auctions or the impact that ng 1s can have on auctions.
have a great festive season imc

redbull77: salut imc
aucun club n a 1infinite de 99de ng pour la bonne et simple raison
suspension : blessure
les joueurs a forte ng sont deja impacte sur l endurance car ils doivent sacrifier l endurance pour la ng tu peux pas avoir 1joueur avec 50d endu et 99 de ng donc les membres font deja ce sacrifice la a contrario des 1 de ng imc.
guanta ne propose pas de supprimer les styles de jeux mais de raboter le bonus du style de jeux comme il a rabote les ng sinon ca ne serrait pas equitable pour le game p

Hi lomi 🙂 You were the best trainer in the game a few years ago, so take a look at this player

R. Armenise

Logically we should be on a pattern of potential = overall score with a talent of 78 he should accumulate more or less 160 points ... in the end it is well over 200 points ... So if you schematize this on players stronger in potential most are hybrids they have the opportunity to play at 99 ng and have because of the boost of training a significant impact of overtraining .. it must be said today it is easy to combine 99ng and positive impact of overtraining without changing the instruction of the player

CQFD with a player like him for example, admittedly a beautiful baby with 85 potential, but who is flirting with 240 total carac points, all with an endurance of 50 (which is no doubt related):
S. Ciscar

iMcCarthy77: Salut lomi 🙂 toi qui était le meilleur formateur du jeu y’a quelques années regarde ce joueur alors

R. Armenise

Logiquement on doit être sur un schéma potentiel = note globale avec un talent de 78 il devrait cumuler plus ou moins 160 points..au final il dépasse largement les 200 points …Donc si tu schématise cela sur des joueurs plus fort en potentiel la plupart sont hybrides ils ont la possibilité de jouer à 99 ng et d’avoir du fait du boost

If you follow the game with any attention, you'll know that the problem you're raising is already completely irrelevant to the new players arriving. Do a search for players aged 23 maximum, potential 80 maximum, to see how many there are 99 ng. Even 95. And even then, the best of this generation are players who benefited from much better conditions in their first seasons of training than we have at the moment.

I think, as a number of people have mentioned in this thread, that impacting style players through their physique would be the simplest solution

Good day to all

Thank you Lomax, my eyes burst out of their sockets

Zeus: Merci Lomax mes yeux ont explosés de leurs orbites

you'll get 10bucks to bring them down to earth a bit, you've been travelling a lot lately ....
bonne journee

Zeus: Merci Lomax mes yeux ont explosés de leurs orbites

Thanks for staying on topic! ⚠️

To answer some questions, I'll show you this.

😎cedric😎: Pour répondre à certains questions, je vous montre ceci.

Wow, how is that possible?🤯