I've had a number of injuries and suspensions over the last few days.

Tomorrow, I play in the LDC semi-final with a depleted squad (2 injured and one suspended among my first-choice players).

My question is this:
Can a member of my club lend me players for this match and get them back afterwards?

Not at the end of the match, I think there's a time limit.

You know the answer very well Estac, there's no point in making a subject to cover yourself up.

estac: Ces derniers jours, j'ai eu plusieurs blessés et suspendus.

Demain, je joue en demi finale de LDC avec un effectif amoindri (2 blessés et un suspendu parmis mes titulaires)

Ma question est la suivante :
Est ce qu'un membre de mon entente peut me prêter des joueurs pour ce match et les récupérer à l'issu ?

I think you can break the loans after your LDC match or even the day after, as the cassation procedure seems quicker when it's the borrower who breaks the loan.

Adrimax: Tu connais très bien la réponse Estac, pas la peine de faire un sujet pour se couvrir de quoi que ce soit..

I don't know the answer.
That's why I'm asking

Do you want to know if it's physically feasible or legally possible?

Because materially it is, legally I have no idea.

I'm talking about the legally feasible.

Some have tried it and had problems 🤣🤣🤣

The question doesn't even arise !!!!

I understand magpie is coming in with 4 injured/suspended for the LDC tonight.
And he's going to get a mug in the face.
Strangely, he hasn't asked me for any players or advice, so I don't understand why.
Maybe one of you will pull off the feat in these conditions.
Good luck to you all!

Rull43: Je crois savoir que magpie se présente avec 4 blessés/suspendus pour la LDC ce soir.
Et il va se prendre une chope dans la gueule.
Bizarrement, il ne m'a pas demandé des joueurs ou des conseils, je ne pige pas pk.
Peut-être que l'un de vous va créer l'exploit ds ces conditions.
Bonne chance à tous

Maybe it's because he's been watching your players? 🫣

estac: Je parle du légalement faisable.

Legally, it already seems highly questionable.
Morally, I'm not even talking about it.

From what I've been able to see, it's apparently allowed in IE, so I think it must also be the case in LDC.

It's part of the game to have injured players. The pro clubs have injured players but they don't get players on loan for a match.
You have to deal with it, it's football. It doesn't come at the right time, it's a shame. But if we authorise loans for one match, we're not done yet.

Just the thought of doing it is already "strange" (and I use that word advisedly).
If an admin dares to say that it's allowed, to lend, to rig a loan for a single match, then I'll fall head over heels.
The same goes for the championships, if we go that way... At the end of the championship, I take the 6 best players in my agreement on loan just for the last week... Of course, there won't be any affinities, but if I can take 6 99-style players, that should be able to help me.

In short, daring to ask the question, already ethically, shocks me.

Is that not allowed? I've seen it several times though...

If we set aside the ethical considerations and just focus on the legal point, there's a sentence in the rules that says: "Any loan commits you and cannot be shortened at will".

Lebaygue: Rien que de penser a le faire,c est déja "étrange" (et je mesure mon mot).
Si un admin ose dire que c est autorisé,de prêter,magouiller un prêt pour un seul match alors je tomberais des nues.
De même pour les championnats si on va par la...Fin de championnat,je prends les 6 meilleurs joueurs de mon entente en pret juste pour la dernière semaine...Certes,y aura pas les affinités mais si je peux prendre 6 joueurs 99 style,ça devrait pouvoir m aider.

Bref oser poser la question,déja éthiquement...

Think about getting a loan manager too.

And zip it up, Lothar!

Azby: Si on zappe les considérations éthiques et qu'on s'attarde juste sur le point légal, il y a une phrase dans le règlement qui dit : "Tout prêt vous engage et ne peut être raccourci à souhait."

EDIT : formulation un peu vague, mais je pense que l'esprit de la règle est clair.

The problem actually stems from an "improvement" made by Aymeric. When I started on VF, you couldn't call back a player on loan, and you couldn't cancel a loan when you were a borrower. And that was a very good thing.

So yes, from time to time we'd get an admin to intervene because we'd loaned a player in progress to a guy who hadn't logged on for 5 or 6 days ...

But frankly, allowing loan reminders, and even worse, loan cancellations by the borrower, is a bad thing. I should point out that this has been my position ever since this kind of reminder became possible. And that I reported it internally when I was in charge.

All you have to do is look at the fact that all the problems we've seen recently (the proliferation of endurance courses in particular) stem from this, in the first place.

It was a really bad idea. And since then we've been stubbornly sticking plasters on this wooden leg, which is a real shame.

Thanks for the history!

I think that this reflection is mostly 2nd degree to denounce certain practices that some agreements do ... after I may be wrong 😉

hazard14: Je pense que cette réflexion est surtout du 2eme degrés pour dénoncer certaine pratique que font certaines entente... après je peux me tromper 😉

That's what I said to myself afterwards, you're certainly right.

Not forbidden not illegal but with the affinity malus, no interest !!!
That's why affinity is interesting !

So I propose that the Estac goalkeeper with 40 stamina should play 3 games a day!

Ced90: Je propose donc que le gardien d'Estac avec 40 d'endurance fasse 3 matchs par jour !

If you ever need it, I know 2 or 3 friends who can make it up to 45 if you're interested.

What does it say in the regulations?

Thanks to Magik for his player.
He will be available again on the 22nd for a new club.

I believe that transparency is essential on a subject like this.

There are two things:
-The quick loan for repair, which in an ethical and real sense is difficult to tolerate and fair.
-Quick loans with the aim of optimising a player via a fail while leaving as little trace as possible.
The matter is in the hands of the admins and Aymeric is aware of this since the last case of a player who went through 50 different clubs.
Decisions will have to be made.
Have a good evening.

I think he already got a ban for cheating 1 year ago...

Good game estac

Good evening. Given that I seem to have been clearly targeted by this totally innocent little manoeuvre, I'd like to say a few words.
I fully recognise that I did this, lending a player for a match. First and foremost, I'd like to make it clear that at no time did I think it was illegal.
A club (Rom) with whom I share a great friendship on VF and irl, 900km apart, had a specific need. As I no longer had any use for this player, I naturally decided to lend him out. I was going to sell him anyway, I really didn't need him any more.
At the time, it seemed totally normal. And absolutely not illegal. Rom then sent it back to me to sell soon. And that was that. I shouldn't have done that.
It was seeing all that sauce that made me realise that this might not be a good thing at all. Okay, the tools clearly allow it, and there's nothing in the rules that forbids it, but I understand that it offends.
So I'd like to make amends and admit that I did it without thinking of hurting anyone at the time. I'd also like to apologise to my agreement, because inevitably people are going to be looking for lice. Clearly, the guys can't do anything about it, they don't manage my club, and I didn't advertise it either, because as far as I'm concerned there was nothing wrong with it.
Now, I'll deal with it. If it's really forbidden, then let's say so clearly, like scheduling friendlies to postpone LdC dates. That's what it says. There's nothing written here. So I thought I was within my rights.
And my player only played this match. He in no way took advantage of it to improve or anything else.
So I apologise again if I've offended anyone, be it my agreement or other vf managers. Magik

Dammit, Magik, you're not going to sleep all night again!

And spend the evening on discord!

In the past, we had to ban this practice and then Aymeric made it impossible. Because of the abuse, once again, of people. Anyway, everyone does as they please, in less than 3 weeks it's the sausage fair, so we might as well have a drink first. And that's all part of managing a workforce, I suppose. Well, on VF. Apééééérooooooooo

Jeffus tuchuss: Je pense que la transparence est de mise sur un tel sujet.

Il y a deux choses :
-Le prêt rapide de Depannage qui dans le sens éthique et réel est difficilement tolérable et équitable.
-le prêt rapide dans le but d’optimiser un joueur via une fail en laissant le moins de trace possible.
Le sujet est entre les mains des admins et aymeric est au courant depuis la dernière affaire du joueur qui est passé par 50 clubs différents.
Des décisions seront à prendre.
Bonne soirée.

And Jeff is right to look into this because at the time when Aymeric banned loans of less than 7 days (I think? I can't really remember and it's not the sort of thing I remember), some clubs found a way of getting round it. As for buying and selling from club A to club B to get round the ban, he had the clubs transfer via clubs C, D, E and so on.

Whatever happens, people will always find a way around the rules, that's just the way it is. It doesn't matter what's done. That's always been the case, everywhere.

Magik'jojo: Bonsoir , Etant donné que je semble clairement visé par cette petit manœuvre totalement innocente, je tiens à prendre la parole.
Je reconnais totalement avoir fait ça, prêter un joueur pour un match. Je précise avant toute chose qu'à aucun moment je ne pensais que c'était illégal.
Un club (Rom) avec qui je partage une grande amitié sur VF et irl avec 900km d’écart a eu un besoin ponctuel. N'ayant plus d'utilité pour ce joueur, j'ai naturellement décidé de lui prêter. De toute façon j'allais l...

I don't see why it should affect the deal, don't worry about that. On VF, there have been some HUGE things and the agreements have sometimes been spared. Others have been breached multiple times and nothing has happened. So here, an isolated gesture by a player for something that seems SO far from what has been practised in terms of "optimisation"... and if you're only talking about jabbering, then yes, there is and always will be. But who gives a shit about that to the power of 10?

totally agree with you mdr
which is what the thief is asking for, we have the same exel files as him I think
mdr you're on it too

milou:

totalement d accord avec toi mdr
ce qui est bien ce que reclame le voleur , on a les memes fichiers exel que lui je pense
mdr t es dessus aussi

Yes, everyone knows about this file and if it's been stopped, I suppose it's for a good reason (unless it's just for lack of time and its complete uselessness). That doesn't prevent cheating. As Jex says, shame on works when you have people with a modicum of self-esteem. So it's pointless.

As for the fact that I'm appearing, yes. It was in the good old days of the auto click that 95% of people used. I had the bad idea of warning a fellow player that he should stop because I didn't think it was allowed, even though the mechanics of the game allowed it, without reporting him to the admins. It's always a shame to take 100M for a prevention message that doesn't benefit you in any way, but I accepted. And that hasn't made me bitter or vindictive or anything. I even laugh about it on a fairly regular basis with my fine brother Clamsii, who took the same thing. It's no big deal.
What's more, in this case, all the youngsters detected by the colleague had ended up in another agreement (that of the 'mole' who was banned) which got nothing. It's a shame too, because I would have thought it would have been logical to remove the fruit of the cheating. Well, that's a logic that not everyone necessarily has.

Come on, I'm off, work in less than an hour!

OMstar83: Oui, c'est connu de tout le monde ce fichier et s'il a été arrêté, je suppose que c'est pour une bonne raison (à moins que ce ne soit juste par manque de temps et par inutilité complète de ce dernier). Ca n'empêche pas la triche. Le shame on comme le dit Jex, ça marche quand tu as des gens avec un minimum d'estime de soi. Inutile donc.

Quant au fait que j'apparaisse, effectivement. C'est à la bonne vieille époque de l'auto clic que 95% des gens utilisaient. J'ai eu la mauvaise idée de préven...

You don't need to justify yourself to him or to the OMstar community, we don't give a damn, he's only doing this to cause trouble**** because it's his last card to play as all the flaws he's using have been fixed and/or are being monitored ;)

It's true that half a brain is a pain in the mp 🤣😘

Adrimax: C'est vrai que demi-cerveau est pénible en mp 🤣😘

I can confirm that! Demicaramel too !!!!

Adrimax: C'est vrai que demi-cerveau est pénible en mp 🤣😘

And not only that... But I like it all the same.

Adrimax: C'est vrai que demi-cerveau est pénible en mp 🤣😘

He doesn't even answer, his head is swollen.

lens59: Il répond même pas sa tête a gonfler

I answer, but not to just anyone. Nuance.

Jeffus tuchuss: Je pense que la transparence est de mise sur un tel sujet.

Il y a deux choses :
-Le prêt rapide de Depannage qui dans le sens éthique et réel est difficilement tolérable et équitable.
-le prêt rapide dans le but d’optimiser un joueur via une fail en laissant le moins de trace possible.
Le sujet est entre les mains des admins et aymeric est au courant depuis la dernière affaire du joueur qui est passé par 50 clubs différents.
Des décisions seront à prendre.
Bonne soirée.

Very good summary and complements what Demi mentioned, loan referral prevents a player sent on training from being wasted, but it creates this kind of totally immoral and illogical possibilities too, moderately simply a tiny financial sum (to be confirmed) that some people are prepared to take on for a little extra benefit.

Is this really a flaw? I don't think so (it doesn't require any action not planned or desired by the game, just the very rapid activation of the dismissal). It seems to me more like a very unhealthy use of a feature. Maybe review the cost of sending a player away, with a price that decreases over time, so that a player who is sent away from a loan very early on pays the full price, then reduces the cost according to the time spent in the club to arrive at a reasonable price after 7-15 days (which would avoid the gain of a short-term loan, and would stop them without any really necessary follow-up by an anti-cheating admin in the event of illegality to the rules, and I'm aiming for another problem at the same time with this measure...). Or simply add it to the rules and punish (which doesn't seem to be the case at the moment from what I've read).

What's more, we're talking here about 24-hour loans for a match, which is totally unrealistic, but we should also one day seriously look into the issue of friendlies VOLUNTARILY scheduled over cup matches to slow down the LDC or certain cups and better manage the squad, a technique that is clearly a flaw here (to skew the algorithm that organises matches), and which we saw during the summer tournament that Aymeric was able to fight against. It's just as illogical (I've never seen PSG postpone a friendly against Villeurbanne in order to postpone their match against Real in the LDC to the following week because it suits them better). When you play several games, you simply think at the start of the season about which fixtures to sacrifice if your squad can't keep up (that's also management), but I find it totally immoral to use a loophole in the scheduling of friendlies to change the date of a match, without the opinion of your opponents, who sometimes find themselves with their arses between two chairs in the end, having to sacrifice a competition too because it's been delayed by the use of a loophole by other people. And yet, this loophole is used and almost legalised by an incredible number of managers, some of whom even become victims when they are denounced for the immoral practice of using it...

Surprising all that... or not so much... and the good big paving stones behind to drown the fish :)

Is it often the same or do I have a bad view of things that stink?

brewen: Très bon résumé et qui se complète avec ce qu'a mentionné Demi, le renvoi de prêt évite qu'un joueur envoyé en formation se retrouve gâché, mais il crée ce genre de possibilités totalement immorale et illogique aussi, moyennement simplement une toute petite somme financière (à confirmer) que certains sont prêt à assumer pour un petit avantage en plus.

Est-ce vraiment une faille? Je ne crois pas (ça ne demande aucune action non prévue ou souhaitée par le jeu, mais l'activation très rapidemen...

The line between optimisation and exploitation is often blurred. (and I say this because I've often lost it).
I'll give you my version.
Optimisation is staying within the law and what the game allows to do as well as possible.
A loophole or exploit is the fact of taking advantage of a legal or illegal game mechanism to bypass the laws of the game.

When you make a 24-hour loan, not to get a player to play but to give him an extra endurance or recovery event. For me, that's totally exploiting a loophole, you're using a short loan to avoid a law of the game.
I know that's going to make some people scream, but as I say... there's a fine line.

Personally I would have liked to help ESTAC. It's not fair that one club is penalised more than the other in such a great competition.
Now, yes, a one-day loan isn't very legal in my opinion. But a month's loan vs money would have been better.

Don't forget that you're my Troyes horse that I bet for the LDC, show that even with a weakened team you're going to win.

Alexandre67310: Étonnant tout ça.. ou pas trop.. et les bons gros pavé derrière pour noyer le poisson :)

What's the point of this message, apart from provocation? I'd rather write a paving stone with ideas like the one that's still to come, than simply provoke and try to create tension.

I'm not trying to stir up trouble, on the contrary, I'm denouncing the practice used and another one in passing (which clearly wasn't aimed at Estac, by the way, if you took it the wrong way, I didn't even realise that his situation described what I was denouncing, and that fits in with the end of my message, which mentions that this has become a common practice for many players, unfortunately). Instead of trying to create new drama and tension in the community with your unconstructive thinking, perhaps you have an opinion on my post and its content, particularly the potential proposals for improvement (particularly the proposal for overpayment to cancel a short-term loan)?

Incidentally, to continue on this subject of suggesting improvements (and if anyone asks me why I don't post on another topic, the reason is simple. I did it 2 or 3 times at the beginning, with no impact in the end apart from getting provocative or inappropriate comments like this one - is it motivating to spend time writing something, only to get replies like: "too long, I didn't read it"), here's one possibility, for example, which would consist of blocking certain dates (impossible to plan matches on them) for as long as we're still in the running in a competition:

This season, we normally had on the current automatic scheduling format:
LDC
T1 15/09
T2 17/09
T3 19/09

1/32e 22/09
1/16e 25/09
1/8e 28/09
1/4e 31/09
1/2 03/10 => Postponed to 04/10 because of the start of the championships and the league cup final on 02/10
Final on 06/10

**League Cup
1/64th (at most) => 16/09
1/32e => 18/09
1/16e => 21/09
1/8e => 24/09
1/4e => 27/09
1/2e => 30/09
Final => 02/09 (earlier if fewer rounds)

**Championship
Starts on 03/10

3rd unofficial cup or more (in French)
Maximum of N cups at the same time?
Unofficial cups no priority over other cups?

Free dates (IE or youth friendly, everyone does what they want)
14/09 (IE impossible because J1)
20/09
23/09
25/09
29/09
01/10

• dates when you are eliminated from a competition

Naturally, when this distorts the rounds before 03/10, the championship goes off in all directions afterwards. There should never have been any problems with the initial planning of the match algorithm without the use of the friendly flaw, which delays certain League Cups by 15 days, and the LDC potentially by 15 to 20 days.

In short, it's not by playing in a sectarian way that we'll all move forward together, whatever the case. We may all be from different agreements (or guilds, to use real multiplayer community terms), but we're playing a multiplayer community game where the aim is to meet, chat and discover new people. Whether Magik or Rom are CP, LR, Fym, LV or any other guild, I don't really care. What matters to me is that I can play peacefully, enjoy myself and meet new people from all walks of life, while pointing out contentious practices and cheating that have no place here and suggesting potential improvements, some good, some bad.

When the players here understand that the community and atmosphere is the main part that keeps a game and a guild alive (and it takes time, it took over 8 years on another game with over 300k active players where I am), everything will be much nicer. That's the message that really struck a chord with me in Aymeric's last voice message, which mentioned the need to open up discord a bit more, and therefore exchanges between players, to break down this sectarianism. There's nothing to stop you from being in guild A, hanging out more in chat rooms or on the forums of guilds B, C and D, and having a bit of 'good-natured' rivalry between A and B. And I think he's got it totally right!

As for Decibel (Jex?), I can only agree with the end of your last message. On the other hand, this sentence clearly implied the mass use of the physical preparation course that you mention (normally solved) under loan, which some use or have used...
"(which would avoid the gain of a short-term loan, [...], and I'm aiming for another concern at the same time with this measure...)".

brewen: Quel est le but de ce message sauf provocation? Je préfère écrire un pavé avec des idées comme celui qui va encore venir, que simplement provoquer et chercher à créer des tensions.

Mon message n'a aucun but de "nouer le poisson", bien au contraire, je dénonce la pratique utilisée et une autre au passage (qui ne visait clairement pas Estac au passage si vous l'avez mal pris pour ça, je n'avais même pas fais attention que sa situation décrivait ce que je dénonçais, et ça colle justement avec l...

I wasn't aiming at you, I had stopped the thread at Magik's beautiful tearful message, sorry if you felt targeted. What you're proposing existed before. Breaking a recent loan was mini 5M so that limited the manoeuvre.

Hey, can we have 2 training periods per season for a player?