bluethunders26 |

5 month ago

Hello ,

Here you can discuss all the matches played and that you would like to understand (or for others to complain), to talk about the match you just have to put the link and ask for explanations.

All the other subjects of debate of match will be closed in order to have only one, in the same way any comment of attack (of club, agreement, personality, success ect ....) will be sanctioned without additional warning.

Enjoy the match debates with all due respect for each other's opinions.


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myforsans |

5 month ago

Personally, I haven't complained for a long time about 4 to 6 inconsistent results per season, it's part of the acceptable randomness.
But what annoys me most about matches is that the slightest change (tactics, instructions, player substitutions) causes your stats to drop drastically.
Even if it's temporary, it's unbearable.
Swap an MDG and an MDD and you're down 100 stats for 10 minutes!
Frankly, it doesn't encourage you to follow the matches actively.
The worst thing is to look at the opponent's collective instructions for a few seconds and sometimes you're down 200 or 300 points. What a load of rubbish!
If there's one thing we urgently need to change, it's that. As for the rest, we can live with it.


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Ritter |

5 month ago

Yes, I also get some pretty inconsistent results, 4 to 7 times a season I take them into account. Indeed, what seems to me very inconsistent are the changes of players even stronger than the one replaced you lose a lot of stats between 50 and 100 points or you get a goal. I think something needs to be changed here because I don't make changes or even change tactics any more.


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zico93 |

5 month ago

Effectively, the excessive loss of stat points during the slightest change of players or tactics is staggering and as myforsans said above, sometimes you lose more than 100 stat points just by looking at the opponent's style instructions for a few seconds, which is really inconsistent and absurd, Aymeric Si tu passe par là stp fait quelques choses pour cette partie tactique du jeu car ont à plus envie de toucher à quoi sa que ce soit tellement ont peur de ce faire contré pour quelques secondes passé à gérer sa tactique est s'organiser pour éviter à l'adversaire d'avoir le dessus sur une partie du jeu.


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Ced90 |

5 month ago

Back then the problem was guys who were 'too into it' and moving every minute, now it's the other way round.

Personally, I don't think it's a bad idea, because if you're going to move, you have to move well.
What's more, if you cause problems for your opponents, they too will have to change something and lose stats.


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myforsans |

5 month ago

And when you have a burnt-out NG 80 player who's down to 50 in rating and you replace him with a fresh 80 player, you lose points in stats, if you have time you'll explain the logic to me.

Besides, even if a manager moves every minute, why penalise him? At least he's active and having fun.
Right now, most of the time you're better off playing sumo and not moving a toe.

So of course you're going to tell me that in a real football match when a substitute comes on he doesn't (let's say sometimes but not always) immediately find his feet with his team-mates, but you're not going to make me believe that the way the game is set up with this brutal drop in stats is to stick as closely as possible to this supposed reality :) :) :)

That there's a slight impact is fine, but then it would have to be smoothed out substantially (I think 90% or 95% of the game's participants agree with me, but of course you're entitled to disagree).


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Galywat |

5 month ago

Yeah, I completely agree with that. In the end, it's always less of a penalty than a bad tactic. It encourages you to make the right choices.

Against an afk it's a false debate because you're not going to have to change tactics often (unless you screw up).

Against an active player, the latter will also have to adjust if our tactics are the best.


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k3vin59218 |

5 month ago

Personally, I change tactics depending on the opponent.
If the opponent is afk, once you've found the right tactics, you can't touch them.
If the opponent is present, if he moves, he also suffers the loss of stats so ... it's the same thing.
If the opponent is present but doesn't touch anything, then as with an afk, you need to take control and not touch it again until the opponent moves first.


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mick3829 |

5 month ago

As far as I'm concerned, the mdm has been totally broken for a long time now, and the results are the fruit of chance. I'm convinced I'm right and it's been obvious for a long time, no need to be blind.


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ManuM |

5 month ago

I agree with you, not necessarily for several seasons but I have the impression that this season something has changed. I don't know if Aymeric hit the mdm at the start of the season but the results are really strange. I'm spending less and less time on vf.
My last 3 league games and my last ie...

image
image
image
image


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Brutus |

5 month ago

Speaking of changing stats... here's the thing about changing from light PH to normal PH:

image

And here's the compensation:

image

I think it's really fair for such a small change!

After that, I'm not complaining... but, for a minor change, the drop in stats is crude!
But if it's intentional, I understand, but it's still a hard drop!


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Demi-cerveau |

5 month ago

What might be interesting is to show us the overall stats for you and your opponents:

  • just before your tactical change.
  • just after your tactical change.
  • just after what you call "regulation".

That way, we could measure the real loss linked to this tactical change, during this match. Personally, I think that overall it's zero, or almost zero. But it will be clearer if you give us the figures.


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Brutus |

5 month ago

It was this match #match?mid=6744838
On my screens, his values are displayed... but yes, not the front one, I admit.

After that, it's the drop in def that I don't understand, compared to the middle (PH light to high as already)... in short, I understand that it can destabilise several managers... even if I've noticed that compensation also has a negative impact on opposing teams (not on my match though).


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Demi-cerveau |

5 month ago

I took a look at your game and looked at the stats between the 30th and 39th minute, to make sure it was before your tactical change.

At that point, the overall difference in stats between you and your opponent was 43 points.

If I look at the screen after the compensation you posted, the overall difference in stats is again 43 points.

There was a half-time interval in between. There's also stamina to take into account, so I'm not going to say that the difference is exactly the same before and after the change. But it's still minimal. Then, of course, when you move, there's a drop in stats, and it takes a while to get back to normal. But overall you're back to where you started if you don't touch anything else.

Obviously, if we move every minute against an opponent who doesn't move for 90 minutes, we'll be penalised by the drop in stats over the whole match, and he won't be. But if you move every minute against an opponent who doesn't move, you have a serious problem analysing the match data.


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Skyz |

5 month ago

There's one thing I'd like to understand about matches: the 30/40 minute gaps.

Again in my game today, lots of chances at the start, nothing for 40 minutes and then chances again at the end.

#match?mid=6686207

Sometimes you just get the impression that the game is buggy because there are too many games on at the same time, but in the end this phenomenon happens every hour.


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hazard14 |

5 month ago

I totally agree, and I think you're right, because sometimes the news is only 5 minutes and 15 seconds long.


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Galywat |

5 month ago

Perhaps it was simply your opponents who had a fair amount of possession, and given that their attack was outnumbered by their defence, they could have had 0 chances.


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3 more replies
Galywat Peut être simplement ton adversaire qui a eu pas mal d'actus de son côté (vu sa possession c'est pas improbable) sur cette période, et vu que son attaque était…

Marcus Aurelius |

5 month ago

Gaps happen all the time, regardless of possession, tactics or the presence of the opposition.


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Marcus Aurelius Les trous ça arrive régulièrement ; indépendamment de la possession, de la tactique ou de la présence de l’adversaire.

Galywat |

5 month ago

It happens a lot less in games with big tactical differences.


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Galywat Ça arrive quand même beaucoup moins sur les matchs avec de forts écarts tactiques. (Ce qui ne veut pas dire qu'il n'y a pas de bug, ça reste une possibilité, m…

Marcus Aurelius |

5 month ago

Bug or no bug, personally, I don't really care.
It's just that on a game you're there to have fun; but if for 40 minutes it's nothing, if it happens regularly whatever the conditions, that's a problem.


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ManuM |

5 month ago

It's not often that you can string them together like that...


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hazard14 |

5 month ago

I assure you it's not rare at all


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dudziak |

5 month ago

You have to stop looking only at the XGs, the XGs only represent part of the match (I'm not saying it was deserved or not).


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Putneg |

5 month ago

Very interesting subject. I think that the loss of stats is a very interesting factor to take into account, it makes the matches more interesting and plays on the anticipation by putting the emphasis on the pre-match. Including a tactical change at half-time with no loss of stats would be just right.
On the other hand, phases of 20 to 40 minutes where there's a bug and nothing happens; in a game, that's forbidden. Not a single foul, not a single shot, not a corner, not even a comment on the domination... we're talking about a 10-word sentence... when will that be?
Honestly, not a word about the opposing club, its star player or its top scorer, the standings and titles of each... even the simplest stuff: "the two teams are neutralising each other"...
You have to fill in the blanks a bit when nothing's happening, it's just text and as it's already not nirvana when the match is live... at least 20 news items per match including the start, half-time and end of the game would be acceptable.
In my opinion.


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aloisio |

5 month ago

Of course, sometimes matches without updates or actions can be frustrating, but as some people have noticed, the number of goals has increased since A45 was changed.
I could be wrong, but I find the MDM more relevant and punishing since this change. Before, in an 'improbable' match, coming back from 1/1 down was already pretty good.
Now you can really make some big comebacks.
What's more, if the IE ranking points record falls this season, I could be wrong but it's no coincidence. If I'm right, hitting 250/260 will happen faster than you think, and it won't be because of the overall level of the players.


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Marcus Aurelius |

5 month ago

The average point/IE before and after is more or less the same.


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aloisio |

5 month ago

Do you have the details for the LR?
After that, we remember that he changed his MDM at the start of the season, so we're not immune to the fact that the goal / domination setting was changed at the start of the season, even if he's changed another parameter in the meantime and it's "invisible" to us. Only the boss knows!

We'll see next season if you manage the 260 again!


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Marcus Aurelius |

5 month ago

It's precisely the RL that I'm talking about, as it's the only agreement that can match the fact of breaking the record.
There was no permanent change at the start of the season.


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Carlos Soler |

5 month ago

#match?mid=6694568 beautiful little carrot 🥕


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Skyz |

5 month ago

The xGs no longer mean anything.
All chances have the same probability of going in. 0.01 or 0.27 = 1 chance in 4 of scoring.


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Magpie |

5 month ago

Personally, I think a simple patch has been applied. Increasing the chances of scoring. Except for the cleats, which have remained in place.
But that's a personal theory, based solely on my feelings and an analysis of quite a few games.
It's like a race to the bottom.

In any case, I see a lot more 'blue' for low-yield opportunities, and just as much blue as before (so not enough, in my opinion of course) for ultra-dominant opportunities.
I'm warming up Azby, mishatte and Val' on the subject ❤️


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Skyz |

5 month ago

It's even worse than before because now you can get 2 goals at 0.02xG and it's almost impossible to recover as nothing happens in the games 🤣


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Ced90 |

5 month ago

Yes, we need to talk about it now, the data will be out soon, but the xGs are nothing but fluff.
No matter how good the chance, you have a 25-28% chance of scoring, even with a 0.01xG chance.

Let's take a simple example, this friendly match dominated by a large margin BUT, 5 chances to 3...
On paper, yes, I have a 68% chance of winning (and he has a 3% chance... lol) because of a fairly substantial xG delta.
But that's not the reality, given that all the chances are the same and given that he had 3 of them out of nowhere.

So I'll leave it to you to imagine the lottery in tight matches

image](https://i.imgur.com/nMAa8cZ.jpeg)

In short, if a 40-metre shot has as much chance of going in as a penalty, we've got to do something about it!
All the more competitive managers in this game have noticed that something strange has been going on for several weeks now.


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Galywat |

5 month ago

Not really. It's just that he had a lot of success generating 3 chances with so few xG. (And even then, he didn't score).

It's not the xGs that are rubbish, it's your interpretation of an opportunity that's wrong. The only thing an opportunity (or at the very least a goal) can say with any certainty is to give the team that had the action in its favour.

The quality of the chance as displayed in the live text doesn't really make sense on VF.

The more xG an event generates (based on match stats coupled with probability) the more likely it is to generate an opportunity/goal (of some kind), but that's as far as it goes.

It's no more of a lottery than it used to be.


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Galywat Pas vraiment. C'est juste que là il a eu pas mal de réussite pour se générer 3 occasions avec si peu de xG. (Et encore, il n'a pas marqué) Ce sont pas les xG q…

Skyz |

5 month ago

So what's the point of xGs if 0.01xG has the same probability of scoring as 0.27xG?
We've analysed everything with the CPs and 0.01 or 0.28 = 1 chance in 4 of scoring a goal.


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9 more replies
Skyz A quoi servent les xG alors si 0.01xG a la même probabilité de faire but que 0.27xG ? On a tout analysé avec les CP et 0.01 ou 0.28 = 1 chance sur 4 de faire b…

Galywat |

5 month ago

0.01xG does not have the same probability of scoring a goal as 0.27xG


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Galywat 0.01xG n'a pas la même probabilité de faire but que 0.27xG.

Skyz |

5 month ago

Source? Because we've had the data back since the MDM change actually 🙂
And it's 25-28% scoring whatever the occasion.

And so for the xG = goals in the data there is a huge rebalancing done on some matches.


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Skyz Source? Parce que nous on a récupéré les données depuis le changement du MDM en fait. Ce qu'on dit c'est factuel. 🙂 Et c'est 25-28% de marquer quelque soit l'…

Galywat |

5 month ago

Yes, whatever the occasion. That's the bias in your analysis.

But generating 0.01xG will give you far fewer chances/goals than 0.27 xG.

Hence my previous message.


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Galywat Oui quelque soit l'occasion. C'est tout le biais de ton analyse. Mais générer 0.01xG sur une actu te donnera beaucoup moins d'occasion / but que 0.27 xG. D'où …

Skyz |

5 month ago

Not all the time, it's random 🙂
#match?mid=6692365

1xG = 1 opportunity
0.5xG = 4 occasions

So the 0.5xG team had more chances to win contrary to what the match analysis says.
Where's the logic 🙂


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Skyz Pas tout le temps, c'est aleatoire 🙂 #match?mid=6692365 1xG = 1 occasion 0.5xG = 4 occasions L'équipe à 0.5xG avait donc plus de chances de gagner contraireme…

Galywat |

5 month ago

It's random in the sense that they're probabilities, yes. You toss a coin 10 times and it could very well come up heads 9 times. That doesn't mean it's not a rule of 1/2.


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Galywat C'est aléatoire dans le sens où ce sont des probas oui. Tu lances 10 fois pile ou face tu peux très bien avoir 9 fois pile. Ça veut pas dire que c'est pas une …

Skyz |

5 month ago

Your example has absolutely nothing to do with what we've been saying all along.
Where is the logic in an opportunity at 0.02xG = a 1 in 4 chance of scoring? 🙂

Je sais pas les mecs vous voulez toujours être raison sans rien comprendre au jeu c'est hallucinant.


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Skyz Source? Parce que nous on a récupéré les données depuis le changement du MDM en fait. Ce qu'on dit c'est factuel. 🙂 Et c'est 25-28% de marquer quelque soit l'…

Demi-cerveau |

5 month ago

If you have facts, show them. If one chance in 4 really has a chance of going in, and the xgs are nothing but fluff, it should show in the statistics.


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Skyz Ton exemple n'a absolument aucun rapport avec ce qu'on raconte depuis le début. Où est là logique à ce qu'une occasion à 0.02xG = 1 chance sur 4 de faire but? …

Galywat |

5 month ago

Says the guy who does exactly the same thing. Anyway...

If you have 0.02xG that could very well mean you have a 5-6% chance of getting a chance and a 2% chance of getting a goal.

At 0.27xG, you have a 60-70% chance of a chance and a 27% chance of a goal.

In both cases, yes, you'll 'see' that the goal/chance ratio is roughly 25%.

That still doesn't mean that 0.02xG gives you as much chance of scoring as 0.2, and that's fortunate because there would only be random results, which isn't the case.


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Demi-cerveau Si vous avez du factuel, montrez le. Si vraiment une occasion sur 4 a une chance de rentrer, et que les xgs ne sont que du flan, ça doit se voir au niveau des …

Magpie |

5 month ago

We've got some sick people here who are tablephiliacs and who've launched a great study.
They're speaking in Chinese with a Martian accent (I've read terms like bias, variance, distribution, banging the neighbour, etc.), but the initial data seems quite edifying, especially on the number of low xG chances that have generated a goal. Because it would seem that the occurrences are as high as 'average' chances. In any case, there are definitely more actions that have resulted in goals with low xG than before (hence my initial theory, my 'feeling').
Now, I've read that they wanted to strengthen the study before exposing the whole thing. I think that's to their credit. And let's not forget that it will always be impossible to know whether other parameters influence the finality of an event (style of play, attitude, aggressiveness, value of a style, general attack/def ratio, etc.).
So it will always be difficult to draw clear conclusions.

But I look forward to reading their conclusions


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Skyz |

5 month ago

Hilarious conceded goals, like this one on the left while nothing was happening for me the whole match by over-dominating all areas.
image](https://i.imgur.com/NPSDsOZ.png)

The game as it stands makes absolutely no sense.
At least we had a good laugh on discord. 😂


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aloisio |

5 month ago

I wasn't aware that we now had the ability to see what Xg each occasion generates. Given my competitive distance from the game to go and play with clowns as fellow players, I hadn't realised that.
If I'd had the inclination, I'd have done the analysis job! So I'm going to wait for the studies and above all the boss's response, because from the start, what A45 has been waiting for is factual contradiction!
If you've got the data, get it out there - it's your only chance of getting the game moving!
It's your only chance of getting the game moving (if it ever needs to!).


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Galywat |

5 month ago

The problem is that you can only see the evolution of xG on this file through new actions (goals / chances (and fouls I think but I'm not sure)), where you see the total xG at the moment.

So to get something reliable you have to rely on data from the very start of the match, which somewhat limits the data that can be fully exploited.

And here again, you only see these xGs when there's an opportunity or a goal, which limits the analysis even more, because there can be an increase in xGs without an opportunity/goal. And in that case you can't exploit anything at all because you have 0 information.

Hence my earlier messages.

I really hope that in time we'll have a more precise and therefore more usable indication.


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phoenix31 |

5 month ago

#match?mid=6706940
That's it. Another one. Any coherent explanation to justify this madness? This game has become a joke, and I'm being polite.


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k3vin59218 |

5 month ago

ELU are at the top of their game, even when they're away 😁


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Uzzego27 |

5 month ago

I've made my contribution this season, and the result is fairly anecdotal given that the title is 90% assured, but it's exhausting to watch this kind of match...
image](https://i.imgur.com/GHs58Zu.jpeg)


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johncenawwe |

5 month ago

I had roughly the same xG as you on my friendly yesterday, but it ended 6-0.
No such luck there!


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hazard14 |

5 month ago

image

A horror 5 ocassions in the match.....


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micha02 |

5 month ago

5xg 0 to 0
I think I'm selling everything


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Uzzego27 |

5 month ago

When you're almost champion with 3 games to go, you don't think about it 😅 but I can understand if it's a decisive match for the title.


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Socrate |

5 month ago

I've sold everything for less... 😅
Strength to you guys


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micha02 |

5 month ago

Yes, of course, it's ironic, but you must go crazy with this kind of match


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Uzzego27 |

5 month ago

I tried everything but it was no use. I'd already scored in the 89th minute of the first leg, so I guess you just don't have the luck against this opponent.


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Skyz |

5 month ago

image](https://i.imgur.com/3nOGAk9.png)
Goal there for my opponent (AFK), I only had one chance in the last 40 minutes. 😂


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micha02 |

5 month ago

It's becoming complicated to manage the mdm at the end of the season.


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mick3829 |

5 month ago

I really think that Aymeric needs to do something because it's getting crazier and crazier and interest is gradually being lost. I don't understand my good results and my defeats either, and yet I'm trying to understand. I realise that it's become totally random.


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Tchub |

5 month ago

But no, some will say that we're just a handful of pussies grumbling about the mdm... the good thing is that we see people complaining all over the place, about all the agreements. This mdm is laughable, it's pointless 3/4 of the time... whether it's the score or the aggression...


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Ali_Cool |

5 month ago

In my personal opinion, the mdmt contains a large element of randomness, while leaving room for each team's tactics.

How do the tactics of each player and the strength of his team really influence the result?

I don't know exactly but if it works well the results are with me 😉


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Arsène |

4 month ago

Yes, we need to find a way to liven up the matches more, because live broadcasts are so often boring...
If the matches lasted 30-45 minutes, we'd be fine, and then some (there'd be a lot more managers following the match, by the way).

But 1h30 one day on 2mini watching a screen that only moves 2-3 times, help (that's 22h a month staring at the screen, please! )

So little things, for example, for a big possession with no risk, "the away team has been stalling for a long time, the opposing fans are starting to boo", frankly nonsense, let that make us a bit of reading at least.

Lol a good weekend to all


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lens59 |

4 month ago

image


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Ritter |

4 month ago

Two days ago I was playing a championship match and I dominated outrageously in the first 5 minutes, losing 1.0 and getting a goal out of nowhere. After 30 minutes nothing happened and I equalised at the 35th minute. And strangely enough in the second half I got 6 in a row after every chance. Can't the chances be smoothed out or can't the match engine be more realistic?


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mick3829 |

4 month ago

So, is something going to happen on this mdm or is it going to remain unrealistic like this for a long time to come? Lol


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Damien2911 |

4 month ago

Cheer up guys


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mick3829 |

4 month ago

No, but I'm getting used to it, even if it still annoys me a bit, I don't understand anything about the game, so if someone could help me to get some results, that would be great. Because unfortunately I'm totally lost and yet I've been playing since 2011 and I don't recognise the game any more.


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Damien2911 |

4 month ago

I think the feeling is heightened tenfold because we play every day... I'm repeating myself, but over the course of a season, I don't think there are more carrots than IRL.


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