Oh no, I don’t agree.

If you just increase the refresh interval but leave the timer in place, we’ll just have the problem less often. But it’ll still be the same problem.

So the only way is to remove the timer but make the changes completely invisible.


Yes, that’s true.

Sauf que ce qui sera affiché à l’instant t ne sera jamais vraiment la réalité mais un décalage dans le temps. Je trouve ca peu clair.

Ou alors j’ai pas bien compris ta proposition.

Oui je pense que tu n'as pas tout à fait compris.
Mais effectivement ce qui sera affiché (pour l'adversaire) sera (parfois) une configuration qui ne sera plus exacte (dans l'hypothèse où l'adversaire aura bougé). Le but c'est pour recréer l'effet de surprise qui existait et qui n'existe plus maintenant.

Je trouve pas que ce soit mieux qu’actuellement ce serait moins clair sans un bénéfice flagrant

We’re very, very close to how things were running three weeks ago… just a little more effort and we’re all on the same page

C’est un afk ….

Correction: he has just logged in

Après ce soir les xG de ton match sont déjà plus encourageant. T’as juste pris une belle carotte à l’ancienne. Si les xg avaient été 0.9 à 0.6 ça aurait été problématique

It’s not the first time, as it’s already happened five or six times this season… and not just for me, but for lots of players… wasting an hour and a half of your time on this…

Just because I don’t agree with you doesn’t mean I’m talking nonsense.
And I’ve already explained in the other thread where you mentioned this why the PC, and why the two are complementary rather than contradictory. I’ll save you the trouble of going to look it up.

Il faut rester objectif: le potentiel de coaching sur PC est bien meilleur que sur l'appli: raccourcis clavier, multi-onglet, etc

Très mignon ton screen.
Mais ça ne change rien. Le déséquilibre dont il parle c’est ce dont je parle dans l’autre topic. Les 2/3 secondes inutiles face à 95% des managers.
De manière générale les managers sont meilleurs là où ils sont le plus à l’aise, tout simplement.

En aucun cas le PC te permet de mieux comprendre le jeu.

Plutôt d’accord je joue uniquement sur téléphone durant mes matchs et pourtant…
Les raccourcis qu’il peut y avoir sur PC sont très utiles, mais ça ne fait pas tout, un mec sur téléphone peut très bien gagner contre quelqu’un sur PC qui utilise ces techniques en question.

Otherwise, the solution is quite simple. You wouldn’t be able to see your opponent’s changes until the stats are updated. It would become a game of anticipation rather than reaction.

In any case, the PC versus telephone debate is no longer relevant at present, given the phased changes to the stats.
It takes roughly 5 minutes for the changes to be fully reflected, and this happens gradually, not all at once. So being able to change 5 players + 2 styles + offensive and defensive tactics in 10 seconds won’t give you any advantage.

Moi, ça me va : c'est exactement la solution que je voudrais et pour laquelle je milite. Je n'ai par contre aucune compétences en programmation pour savoir si c'est facilement réalisable.

It’s true that at this level – and without drawing any parallels with real life – it feels more like a feat of skill than genuine tactical thinking...

En fait le jeu que vous voulez c’est on pose l’equipe et on ne touche plus à rien et on se sent tacticien c’est ça?

Que veux tu qu’on te dise ?
Ton prisme de vision est lunaire. Si quelqu’un fait tout pour gagner de manière correct sans tricher, des mecs comme toi arrivent et sous entendent que ce sont quand même des tricheurs car ça lui plaît pas.

La on arrive au débat téléphone vs PC, car c’est le dernier angle que vous avez trouvé pour venir militer votre envie d’un jeu mou et chiant.

Si t’as pas envie de voir des interactions tu joues simplement pas à un jeu qui est fait pour, c’est aussi simple que ça

Memories, memories… It reminds me of a well-known VF player. He had exactly the same line of reasoning, and the same defence. “Since the game allows it, I’ve set up a little automated script to pick up players from the shop more quickly, and that’s that.” “It’s not my fault if players earn four times the points in a single individual training session thanks to my programme; that’s just how the game was designed.”

Well, apparently he’s no longer around. So I’m not going to mention his name; I’d be far too afraid he might turn up again… I remember having long conversations with him, back when I was an admin, about what morality was, the spirit of the rules, and why they shouldn’t be flouted. He never understood.

Anyway, we deleted four of his accounts; he caused a league to be shut down twice; he brought another one to the brink of closure; and, just recently, rumour has it that some of his transfers have caused a couple of problems. It just goes to show that, sometimes, you manage to do things in the game that you shouldn’t. It’s something to think about.

But do you realise what you’re saying?

Your colleague is implying that, in his view, playing ‘ASL + ATL’ is cheating.

When we reply that it’s a bit of a daft way of looking at things, you come along with Jex’s even more ridiculous comparison.

Next time, feel free to claim that anyone who trains once a day is cheating too.

Please could you post the links to Lebaygue’s reply… As I’m not logged in 95 per cent of the time to keep an eye on replies, I’ve probably missed it if it’s buried in the middle of nowhere.

I’ve already read and re-read all his posts, but I still don’t get the point of not moving. I mean, not moving when there’s no need is fine, but what do you do when the other person’s blocking you, lol? Do you just wait for the piece to fall on your side? Or do you hope your opponent’s gone off to make a coffee and has forgotten about the match for long enough (at least 10 minutes) for you to change your attack zone without being countered straight away?

@ Lorenzo....At first glance, this is on Sora’s ‘call for help’ thread.

So before that, wasn’t there a ‘heads or tails’ situation? Were the endless, perpetual debates on the MDM just mirages?
It didn’t suit you before, it didn’t suit you afterwards, it doesn’t suit you now.... but the ‘cancers’ of the game are blokes like me.

Far less than before; we were actually pleased with the consistency of the matches between last season and the start of this one. Of course, there were the odd blips or illogical results, but that’s always been the case and has been more or less acceptable. But anyway, I’m not going to drag this out into a debate where we’ll never see eye to eye – everyone has their own experience of the game. If some people enjoy coming on two or three times to change tactics during a match, fair enough, but please also respect those who want to be involved for the full 90 minutes. I get the impression it’s us who are the ‘park-the-bus’ madmen, lol

Well, obviously yes… It’s you lot on the bus who are the mad ones…
To throw your opponent off balance during the one-minute or three-minute news bulletin, you swing back and forth between left, right and centre several times to drive the other person round the bend… before the main news story.
I spent a few years at LR; I know what it’s like to be devious… You’re not going to pull a fast one on me.

I’m in remission; I’ve recovered from this cancer, but apparently not everyone has.

About sixty ‘likes’ on a two-line thread, most of whom never comment

But that’s surely a minority (spoiler: I don’t think I’ve ever seen so many ‘likes’ on a thread by a non-admin/mdj)

Interviews everywhere expressing immense frustration at having to play a game that’s been restricted

We know full well who the crazy ones are in this case

You’re playing the hard-headed one who doesn’t want to understand – never mind. As for me, I’m going to stop trying to explain things to you; there’s no point.

Nobody has said that what’s currently on offer suits them. Or else you’ll have to show me the comment.

That doesn’t change the fact that if we’ve got to this point, there’s a simple reason for it, one that doesn’t stem from any request on the forum: Aymeric has seen a way of playing that doesn’t fit with HIS vision of HIS game. He reckons that ‘top managers’ are doing whatever they like. And he doesn’t want people who are messing about to win. With or without bots. With or without loads of tabs open. If he wants to spell out exactly what’s bothering him, he’ll do so. So he’s trying to put a stop to it. And he will put a stop to it, whether you like it or not. Suggest a better way of achieving this to him, rather than trying to cling on to advantages that he no longer wants you to have – and rightly so.

Hang on, don’t switch the roles.

It’s you (I’m taking the opposite view, seeing as you want to take the opposite view) who’ve been talking to us since this morning about a discrepancy between the French-language mobile and PC versions of the game.

Well, this topic’s a bit of a laugh, but why not.

Then you go on to mention that this afternoon’s update will continue to frustrate managers.

You’re coming in with a heavy hand to:

• imply that very active managers are cheats

• suggest that those who use the best methods to win legally are cheats

Then, a little speech full of little lectures, just like every time we disagree with you, with arguments that at times border on sophistry

Solutions have been proposed that would satisfy a large number of managers. (Even you semi-active ones)

But once again, you want to rise three heads above the fray and hand out the good and bad marks

You’re not cheats; you’re the ones who end up getting nerfed in the end, but you’re incapable of realising it.
There haven’t been any nerfs to this game because of the alliance I’m in… Just a stroke of luck, I suppose.

Ah, here we go… The agreements. OK, I understand better now why you’re always taking issue with the same ones.

I don’t see the connection between using a feature legally and cheating – I still don’t.

If the game made it easier to win by fielding three ATCs and dominating the opponent’s three defensive sectors, and managers did just that in response, would you accuse them of cheating too?

Sorry, I should say ‘crafty’

This is a game where you have to win matches; every manager uses the tools at their disposal according to a ‘meta’ to win.

I’m not going to explain the term ‘meta’ to you, as you’ve used the term ‘nerf’ – you must surely know what it means.

And anyway, the person isn’t complaining because they aren’t winning (the proof is that half of them are from the circle and they’re the favourites for the title) but because they’re being prevented from interacting with the opposing manager when both are active.

I’ll say it again because I get the impression you don’t want to understand

You’re getting everything mixed up. The change was made following the anomalies spotted during the visual updates in the second week of September.
After that, Aymeric decided to tweak the MdM in his own way, as he didn’t want to revert it to its original state.
Do you really think the news system and the practice of changing instructions as late as possible before each minute would have remained in place for so long (several months, years) if Aymeric hadn’t been happy with it?
We’re well aware that Aymeric won’t stoop to reverting the game to how it was a month ago, but we need to find solutions so that we can continue to create moments of surprise during matches

But do you actually realise what you’re saying?? This is completely daft…
The MDM was fine before; most of the people complaining about it were those who weren’t really involved, or blokes who didn’t understand how it worked at all. And I’m not even talking about what Ced mentioned in his message. Just because you move your players at the last second doesn’t mean you’ll win a match – make no mistake, there are far more important things to know.
The only complaints over the last couple of weeks were simply down to the gameplay being absolutely dreadful, between the timer and the stat updates. It was completely unnatural and forced managers to react instantly due to a lack of data. The game is initially seen as a game of chess, and that’s what makes it so charming; anticipation must be a key element.

I don’t really understand why you use the term ‘crazy fans’; they’re simply people who are passionate about the game, so it seems perfectly logical to me that they’d be 100 per cent focused on the match and juggling things left and right to try and win. It’s the same in every game: those who are fully committed win more than the others, so I don’t see the problem. If you don’t fancy following the match for 90 minutes or changing tactics every 10 minutes, that’s your choice. But don’t come and criticise us for doing it when we’re having fun.
It’s still just a game, and some people like to spend time on it to unwind and have a good time, whether that’s scouting, working on team chemistry, or whatever else. Giving 100 per cent in your matches is part of that too.

Don’t worry, we certainly don’t want to end up like you, but the problem is that we’re playing that game too – it’s not just the CP, the LR and the Cercle.

Right, so let’s take stock:

• Looking down on most comments: Check

• Optimising = cheating: Check

• Nasty CP/LR/Circle --> The scourge of the game: Check

What’s the next Godwin’s law moment?

So is this whole thing just the good guys versus the bad guys, then?

All we need now is Truchot and we’ll be on a par with RMC’s GG… Please send me a link to the podcast via private message.

In itself, I understand that last-minute changes are something that need to be addressed. I don’t find it particularly interesting.

Simply hiding changes in style or role might be enough.

But right now, when it comes to two active users, it’s likely to be extremely complicated to distinguish between them. The MDM encourages imbalances. I struggle to see how we’ll be able to do this in future.

That said, I’m not quite sure how to change this to fit with this new version.

It’s still rather cheeky of you to draw up checklists like this.
Nobody’s looking down on anyone, except perhaps those who call their opponents ‘semi-active’, as if to insult them and make them seem less important than themselves.

Nor has anyone said that exploiting the mdm to the very core is cheating; I read the word ‘cunning’, which, until further notice, is not synonymous with ‘cheat’.

After all, it’s you who’s talking about “cancer” when referring to LR, CP and Le Cercle.

I’ll chime in from time to time, not to try and debate with you – since that seems impossible – but to set the record straight and ensure your fallacies, oversimplifications and accusations of ulterior motives don’t go unchallenged.

Perhaps by moving towards the new ‘logarithmic’ guidelines ==> 30 per cent after 30 seconds, 50 per cent after one minute, 80 per cent after 5 minutes and then gradually up to 100 per cent by the 10-minute mark. At the moment, it seems fairly linear.

Careful, you might bring Voldem back... J... Well, we don’t really know anymore

Je regarde les matchs des girondins grâce à l’IA.

Claude j'imagine ?

Open Gégé; it’s brand new.

Hello mate,
I’d been sitting on the sidelines of this debate, but your message has made me get involved – you rascal, François!
On a more serious note, yes, we’ve seen that there are two camps: but both camps have the right to express their views, and there’s no need to try to counter the other by criticising their approach to the game or their determination to have their say. Your view, Baygou’s, Uzzego’s and Sora’s are all valid and shouldn’t be dismissed.

Besides, whilst A45 has changed the MDM, he’s also tried to refine his changes – proof that he, too, isn’t satisfied with the result. And every day new changes appear, proof that they’re still feeling their way.

When you set out to identify the supporters and the critics, on the VFO (which may not be representative but does indicate a trend), there’s still a rather negative NPS. If this score is combined with reduced activity in the game – and therefore in the VF Store – it will certainly mean continuing to make changes to find the right balance between the previous, exploitable world and this current, rather dreary one.

Mon très cher Jordan.

Entendons nous bien, je n'ai jamais dit que j'étais satisfait des modifications qui avaient été proposées. Ou alors il faut me retrouver le moment d'égarement où je l'ai fait. Cette partie concerne le comment ça a été fait.

Par contre, le pourquoi ça a été fait, il est clair, et ça a été explicitement dit par Aymeric d'ailleurs.

Le comment ça a été fait, j'ai donné mon avis, et je trouve que tous les avis à ce sujet sont pertinents et instructifs. Tous les retours d'expériences sur le sujet sont pertinents et instructifs. J'ai bien aimé lire l'avis de Magpie, par exemple, sur son match du jour.

Ce qui me dérange, depuis le début, c'est que certains remettent en cause de manière systématique, chaque jour, le pourquoi. Sans jamais rien proposer sur le sujet sauf un retour en arrière. En fait, leur seule communication consiste à dénigrer le pourquoi.

C'est sans doute trop difficile pour eux d'accepter ce pourquoi. Ça fait jamais plaisir de s'entendre dire par le concepteur du jeu qu'on aime qu'on est une partie importante du problème. Et là, je suis désolé, à part l'introspection, la réflexion sur son rapport à VF, je ne vois pas ce qui pourrait leur être profitable.

Belle journée.