In order to limit (let's not dream) the creation of "bogus" clubs to take advantage of the benefits granted to level 1 clubs, in particular through dubious transfers, I propose the introduction of a double authentication system (sending an SMS, for example) to :

• create a new club
  but also
• put a player on the transfer list
• buy a player from the transfer list
• possibly also to carry out certain operations such as launching a build or loaning a player

Even if some clever people use a 'friendly' phone number to create a bogus club, they'll no doubt find it difficult to keep the club going in the long term and even in the short term, as I think the admins could have a database that would allow them to see the phone number associated with the club and identify duplicates.

I'm curious to know if there are any technical obstacles to setting this up. In any case, my bank knows how to do it, my tax office knows how to do it, almost all the service providers I use with a login know how to do it, etc...

Unfortunately, I think this goes completely against the direction the game seems to have taken.
I get the feeling that a lot of changes have been made to appeal to an 'easier' audience.
You see, the manager who downloads the game, tries it out very quickly, is quickly helped (dynamically) with aids, doped-up mentoring and so on.
And then, they don't have to think too hard (training sessions simplified to the max, simple tactics), and they don't need to be on the game a lot (logging on once in the morning on the metro, and once in the evening during a break).
So if I've got my facts right, I think that setting up this verification system makes it much more difficult to catch consumers. And so I think it goes against the current policy (I'm afraid it's "more managers = better business for the Store", which is understandable, and can be defended, to be honest).

That said, you're absolutely right to point out a real concern about security in the game. By that I mean the fight against cheating.
But when A45 says in full audio that "we can now detect multiplayers very easily", I think we've all understood where we stand.... :/

When he sees that the admins are all going to give up their jobs, he'll back down.
Otherwise he'll have to get used to the idea that cheating is part of the game.

Double authentication when creating an account once and for all by registering a telephone number and then having to validate the code received by SMS only when making a transfer makes life infinitesimally more complex for the 'normal' player but enormously more complex for the 'cheating' player.
So as far as I'm concerned, there's no point in debating whether or not to introduce such a system.
..unless the aim is to make people believe that there are dozens of new players every day (at the risk that 90% of these new players are multi-accounts).

Rather than sending a code by sms for each action, a multi-account player often has to log out, so the code for each connection seems better. I do agree, however, that double authentication is needed.

Perhaps we could have a clear and honest communication from Aymeric on this subject?
Because he really did say in his voice that it was now very easy to detect multiple accounts...

But when you dig a bit, you quickly realise that there are a lot of them (plus those with wives, cats and so on...).

I think the majority of the community is very worried about what's planned for next season!

Personally, I wouldn't mind every time you log in, but you're going to get a lot of moaners whining that it's too much.
I think that at creation to register the phone and then only occasionally to validate 2 or 3 sensitive operations such as transfers (not auctions), choosing a sponsor, launching a build, would be enough for now and would reduce fraud considerably and simplify the work of the admins by also considerably limiting the time of an investigation for multiple accounts.

myforsans: Faire une double authentification à la création de son compte une fois pour toute en enregistrant un numéro de téléphone et devoir ensuite valider une fois le code reçu par SMS uniquement quand on fait un transfert complexifie de façon infinitésimale la vie du joueur "normal" mais complexifie énormément la vie du joueur "tricheur"
Donc pour moi il n'y a pas de débat et pas à se poser de question sur l'opportunité ou non de mettre en place un tel système.
..à moins que le but soit de faire cro...

Hmmm no, I don't agree. Now, I'm not necessarily right.
But if a new player is tempted by the game, if they're asked for their phone number the first time they use it, I think most of them won't get past that stage. Because you wonder "why?" or "what are they going to do with it? You know, people are suspicious. Personally, I put myself in their shoes. If I was new and didn't know VF at all, I'd be reluctant to pass on data. You never know where it's kept, what it's used for, how secure it is and so on.
Admittedly, this information is probably already stored on the download platform (PlayStore, AppleStore, etc.) but that's considered secure. Now you're going to a game you know nothing about...
I really think you're just losing people. Your targets as an MDJ...

Then, are there any newcomers arriving? Of course, and I hope they do ! Otherwise the game is lost ! But I'm not fooled either. By dint of seeing cheating, I've reached the point where I look at each new account with suspicion. If I communicate with them, I always wonder which banished person I'm talking to, or which VF 'celebrity' I'm talking to... But that's abnormal, I agree. Nevertheless, I'm convinced that there are some real new players. The problem is that they don't stay. And that's A45's big problem, which he seemed to want to alleviate a while ago (setting up support, mentoring). Even the handbook I wrote was more or less oriented in this direction, and above all, was part of this policy (getting newcomers hooked).
Now, without more information, I don't have any data on the veracity of my feelings about the 'real manager / multis' gauge. I totally agree with you that measurements are needed. And I'd even add that uncontrolled cheating is the cancer of a game. It's vital to curb it as much as possible. I'm simply saying that your method, however interesting it may be, and however effective it may be in the fight against cheating, may have undesirable effects elsewhere.
Now, I'm not a prophet, I'm just stating the problem in your idea, which is very interesting by the way

The simplest solution is to stop all aid at level 1, as is the case now, and that would solve a lot of problems.

Magpie: Hmmm non, je ne suis pas d'accord. Après, je n'ai pas forcément raison.
Mais si un nouveau joueur se laisse tenter par le jeu, si, dès la 1ere utilisation, on lui demande son numéro de téléphone, je pense que la plupart ne passent pas cette étape. Car tu te demandes "pourquoi ?" ou "que vont-ils faire de ça ?". Tu sais, les gens sont méfiants. Perso, je me mets à leur place. Si j'étais nouveau que que je ne connaissais pas du tout VF, je serai réticent à transmettre des données. Tu ne sais ja...

Personally, now that I know about VF, I'm even less inclined to give my personal phone number.
If the game is pirated or something, you don't know who's going to end up with it.

Well, if I tell you (or VF) that my phone number is 06 11 71 45 64 what difference does it make to me?
What exactly am I risking? Canvassing?

myforsans: Bof si je te dis (à toi ou à VF) que mon numéro de téléphone c'est 06 11 71 45 64 ça changée quoi pour moi.
Qu'est ce que je risque concrètement ? Du démarchage téléphonique ?

For example, or smishing.
And even so, it's a feeling, whether you deny it or not.
If you don't, well done 👍

Magpie: Par exemple, ou du smishing.
Et quand bien même, c'est un ressenti, que tu le nies ou pas.
Si toi tu ne l'as pas, bravo 👍

No I haven't, I must not be paranoid enough

myforsans: Non je ne l'ai pas, je ne dois pas être assez paranoiaque

This is crazy. Can't you really open up your spectrum of vision a little?
Can't we think outside your vision?

Tell me, is that your real number? If not, use the real one to see if it's really safe. I dare you.
Secondly, it's amazing what we can do with AI these days.
If you put your CV on the internet (linkedin, keljob, etc) with your number in an image (of your CV), in 1 hour I'll publish your name, surname, address, probably a photo, your career path, etc.
Just from a number.
This is just an example. But do it if you don't care.

Against
Not everyone has a telephone number (I don't have one myself)
Or an alternative to SMS verification

Many of us avoid talking to some of you, it's not to give you our 06!

Apart from this double authentication when creating an account, it will simplify life for admins and give them access to a panel of logs in terminal format that logs the IP of each connection, which will make life a little easier for the IP addresses.

Sun's: Contre
Tout le monde n'a pas forcément un numéro de téléphone (perso j'en possède pas)
Ou bien une autre alternative que les vérifications via SMS

Emails are already stored. An OAuth linked to emails when an account is created would limit things a bit, because at least email creation is limited.

Or mm crazier a script or bot that scrapes accounts with the same IP or devices or further added a few suspicious parameters to identify duplicates and automatically alerts the admins for manual verification.

You don't need a script or bot to scrape because you have server-side logs with this information.

OAuth is just a protocol for connecting with another account, like "connecting with google", it's not this protocol in itself that will restrict accounts.

I don't think there are any solutions that are at once simple, not costly in terms of time/money or RGPD-friendly for this subject, or even that our opinion will matter.

Azby: Tu n'as pas besoin de script ou de bot pour scraper car tu as des logs avec ces infos côté serveur.

OAuth c'est juste un protocole de connexion avec un autre compte, genre "se connecter avec google", c'est pas ce protocole en lui-même qui limitera les comptes.

Je ne pense pas qu'il y ait de solutions à la fois simples, pas coûteuses en temps/argent ou RGPD-friendly pour ce sujet, ni même que notre avis importera.

Of course you have the logs, but do the admins have access to them?

Azby: Tu n'as pas besoin de script ou de bot pour scraper car tu as des logs avec ces infos côté serveur.

OAuth c'est juste un protocole de connexion avec un autre compte, genre "se connecter avec google", c'est pas ce protocole en lui-même qui limitera les comptes.

Je ne pense pas qu'il y ait de solutions à la fois simples, pas coûteuses en temps/argent ou RGPD-friendly pour ce sujet, ni même que notre avis importera.

When an account is linked to Google or other platforms, this would limit the number of users, bearing in mind that you can change your email address once you've signed up.

Even if you can have several phones (personal + business), not to mention your spouse's, your children's, your neighbour's etc... It's still less comfortable for a cheat to manage his multiple accounts than with his ten or fifteen email addresses that he can create for himself at any time in a matter of seconds.

PS: I get PMs from people telling me that those who are against double authentication are doing so because they have multiple accounts :) :) :)
Personally I don't think that's why, but there's just a bit too much paranoia on their part because they should be thinking about the countless people they've already given their number to without even thinking about the illusory consequences they're claiming.

Magpie: C'est dingue ça. Tu ne peux vraiment pas ouvrir ton spectre de vision un peu ?
On ne peut pas penser autrement que ta vision ?

Dis-moi, c'est ton vrai numero ? Si non, mets le vrai, pour voir si c'est vraiment sans danger. Chiche.
Ensuite, c'est fou ce qu'on fait avec l'IA de nos jours.
Pour peu que tu ais mis ton CV sur internet (linkedin, keljob, etc) avec ton numero dans une image (de CV), hop, dans 1h je te publie ici ton nom, prenom, adresse, probablement une photo, ton parcours, etc...

Mine is 3 pages long, so don't bother with it if I put it in its entirety, you'll spend all afternoon on it 😁😁😁
For the subject, personally the system to receive an SMS to validate a transfer is without me
We'd still make money doing this, but this is basically a GAME for fun.
Too much constraint kills the constraint
Yes, it's a constraint to validate the same thing 2 times.
For the bank for example it's normal it's real money but for a game a bit of seriousness
Any game I've played in the past has and always will have loopholes for cheating.
I don't find any interest, especially in a football management game, in cheating. I'm repeating myself, but we're on a game here, we're trying to be the best trainer, the best in the game, etc., so why cheat I don't understand.
As for the project, I'm against it, if there's going to be a fight against cheats, it's not up to others to be penalised.
Good day (to each his own, that's mine)

That's your point of view.
On the other hand, you might think that people who are prepared to give out their number everywhere, without knowing where they put it (as in the case of a newcomer who doesn't know the game) are being stupidly careless.
Personally, I don't think that's it, but there's simply too much recklessness on their part, because they should think about the countless people who have suffered major mishaps as a result (phishing, smishing, identity theft, etc). Having investigated a case on this (a long time ago, I admit), it often starts from nothing and can go a long way.
So you can limit the amount of information that's released to protect yourself. In any case, it has to remain a choice. But for those who don't care, frankly, knock yourself out ;)

myforsans: Même si on peut avoir plusieurs téléphone (perso + Pro) sans parler de celui de son conjoint, de ses enfants, de son voisin etc... Ca reste quand même moins confortable pour un tricheur de gérer ses multicomptes qu'avec sa dizaine ou quinzaine d'adresses mails qu'il peut se créer à tout moment en quelques secondes.

PS : je reçois des MP de gens qui me disent que ceux qui sont contre la double authentification c'est parce qu'ils ont des multicomptes :) :) :)
Personnellement je ne pense pas q...

You're right, we probably give out too much of our phone number for free to too many strangers. And then we complain about the incessant canvassing by operators of all kinds...
So maybe I should start being a bit more paranoid.
One thing's for sure, on VF it's not paranoia, there's enough history on this game not to come and put your phone number on it. Maybe account hacking doesn't mean anything to you since you're new to the game? Do you trust all the VF members?
Not me, call me paranoid if you want, personally I call it experience. 10 years ago I'd probably have put it in without a worry, not today.

Oh dear, I've just left my phone number with the secretary at the garage where I've left my car for servicing so that she can call me when it's ready. .... I shouldn't have done that, I'm already freaking out!

Myforsans, evolve a little; as soon as someone disagrees with you, you either imply something or take the piss out of them. It won't help your argument, quite the opposite.

The initial idea isn't bad, although I'd limit it to creating an account. But the security on this game is literally shoddy.

Can you understand why people don't want to leave private data for a game that can't protect itself? Unless they're cheaters, idiots and/or conspiracy theorists?
Personally, I trust my mechanic's secretary more than VF to keep my phone safe.

On the other hand, good news: I've just found out that you're eligible for the renovation bonus to help you change your woodwork. You'll have to pay in advance, of course.

The game is certainly more protected than you think.
Just because there have been two or 3 occasional intrusions (to cheat and not to retrieve contact details), which were ultimately of no consequence, doesn't mean that the game isn't protected. It is, and to a greater extent than you think, otherwise there would have been more attacks.

But above all, recent history shows that cyber-attacks affect all sites, even the most reputed for their security (Public Assistance, NATO, Amazon, etc.). So yes, VF is one of the 3 or 10 million potential targets for a hacker, but given the extremely limited interest for a hacker in knowing the telephones of VF members, I doubt that the VF database would be a priority target for him.

NB: Apart from that, when it comes to saying: Myforsans, you need to evolve a bit; as soon as someone disagrees with you you either imply something or you make fun of them.
I know that the best defence is a good offence, but coming from you and given your reputation, wouldn't that be a bit (a lot) like the pot calling the kettle black? :) :) :)

As far as creating an account is concerned, I can see the point, and I quite agree.

For transfers, no. It has to be flexible enough. I can't imagine how cumbersome it would be for someone who buys and sells.

The initial concern with this subject is a misunderstanding between two terms, which does not make the form any easier:

• Double authentication, the aim of which is to SECURE the user's account from potential hackers who might try to connect to it (hence its presence in banks, health services, suppliers, which contain PRIVATE information such as bank details, addresses, etc.). The idea is simply to trap the hacker a little more if he finds the CDM for the account.

• Digital identity, which is very present in some countries such as China, the aim of which is to control each individual's account, in order to track everything they do (particularly on social networks and individual behaviour). This is also one of the objectives of 'France Identité', where your identity card can be used at any time to connect you to various services (mainly government services, at least at the moment).

What you're proposing here is a digital identity system, to detect multiple accounts, rather than double authentication to provide the best possible security for your personal data that a hacker could find when accessing your account.

Now to the substance:

• The idea is not particularly bad, but it will solve any concerns about multi-accounts in the legal and juridical aspects currently available?
• Is it possible and feasible for the MDJ to create such a system?
• The introduction of ultra-sensitive data (telephone numbers and more) inevitably means that all this has to be made secure. And when you see all the data leaks all over the place on ONLINE sites (and your example of the garage is totally out of context), and the consequences for the user (phone spam, mailbox spam, even harassment and suicide...) following the resale of your data by hackers on canvassing markets, it doesn't look particularly appealing. What's worse, when you consider the mentality and tensions in certain discussions, and the current world where harassment is rife, I don't particularly want someone to be able to access my information (normally, this information is private, so no-one should have access to it except an approved admin and the MDJ), which could allow them to identify me and cause harm IRL. And above all, for the MDJ, it's an investment to secure this system, because in the event of a data leak and subsequent complaints, he'd be risking a lot with the CNIL.

To sum up, what you're asking for is a digital identity rather than dual authentication, it exists, it's possible to put in place, but is it proportionate and appropriate to the situation to take such a measure? Everyone will have their own opinion, but I don't think there's really any firm answer possible at the moment. (This issue has been the subject of debate in France and the EU for several months now, particularly with a view to better identifying the accounts of people who harass or defraud online sites, especially social networks).

VF is a mill. What saves it is that it is known by only 3 peeled and one shorn, that's all.

NB : No.

brewen: Le soucis initial de ce sujet est une mécompréhension entre deux termes déjà, qui ne facilite pas la forme :

• La double authentification, dont le but est de SECURISER le compte de l'utilisateur de potentiels pirates qui chercheraient à se connecter dessus (d'où sa présence dans les banques, services de santés, fournisseurs, qui contiennent des informations PRIVEES tel que des coordonnées bancaires, adresses...). L'idée est tout simplement de coincer un peu plus le hackeur s'il trouve le MDP ...

I don't see where the proposal differs from double authentication: i.e. entering your password and, for example, a password received by SMS.

Yes, Brewen, very well explained.
There's no need, however, in my proposal to move towards digital identification.
Simply
With double authentication,

1. In principle, no more hacking (so that will reassure our friends who spoke earlier)
2. And on the other hand: not more multi-accounts but much less comfort in managing them.

As for the supposed inconvenience for those who buy and sell, I don't think they do 100 a day and validating a 6-digit code received by SMS should take around 5 to 10 seconds :)

myforsans: Oui Brewen, très bien expliqué.
Pas la peine néanmoins dans ma proposition d'aller vers l'identification numérique
Simplement
Avec la double authentification,

1. En principe plus de hacking (donc voilà qui rassurera nos amis qui se sont exprimés avant)
2. Et d'autre part : non pas plus de multi-comptes mais beaucoup moins de confort pour les gérer.

Par ailleurs quant à la supposée gêne pour ceux qui font de l'achat-revente, je ne pense pas qu'ils en fassent 100 par jour et valider un code à...

It's still a fairly 'heavy' process. It's more than enough if it's requested from time to time, it doesn't have to be for every action in the game.

Galywat: Je vois pas où la proposition diffère d'une double authentification : à savoir renseigner ton mot de passe, et par exemple un mot de passe reçu par SMS.

On demande pas ton nom ou ton adresse. On te demande juste deux moyens d'authentification.

(Même si, ici c'est un peu fait pour utiliser le fait qu'on ne détient en général pas beaucoup plus d'un ou deux numéro de téléphone (mais bon ça se discute))

The difference is that this is not the objective of this technique. The aim of double authentication is to strengthen the security of your account, to make it more difficult to log in from outside your account (by adding intermediate steps requiring verification by another means of connection such as a telephone or email address, which the hacker should not have access to in theory).
It inevitably makes creating a multi slightly more complex, because 1 account = 1 email address = 1 telephone number, but it doesn't prevent someone who really wants to cheat from doing so (it's a bit like basing a multi on an IP now, with all the talk about mobile connections and VPNs).

A system has recently been introduced to ensure that a person = a unique account, and it's called digital identity. It's a tool that's being debated, but it's a fact.

OK, but that doesn't change the fact that this is dual authentication, not a digital identity. Even if it's not exactly for the security of our own accounts.

myforsans: Oui Brewen, très bien expliqué.
Pas la peine néanmoins dans ma proposition d'aller vers l'identification numérique
Simplement
Avec la double authentification,

1. En principe plus de hacking (donc voilà qui rassurera nos amis qui se sont exprimés avant)
2. Et d'autre part : non pas plus de multi-comptes mais beaucoup moins de confort pour les gérer.

Par ailleurs quant à la supposée gêne pour ceux qui font de l'achat-revente, je ne pense pas qu'ils en fassent 100 par jour et valider un code à...

So, yes and no.

In theory, you can no longer have your account hacked (for example, no-one can log into your France Travail account). On the other hand, a hacker can very well hack into the France Travail database (which happens every 6 months lately), and retrieve the table containing your profile and your private information, without having hacked into your account. And this is the point that both Magpie and Marcus mention.

Double authentication is now done by digital or facial recognition (especially eye recognition) rather than a code, which I think is even more secure in practice, and quicker and more environmentally friendly than a code received by email. (So much for the ecology of sending 10k login emails or text messages a day with a code...)

myforsans: Ouh là, je viens de laisser mon numéro de téléphone à la secrétaire du garage où je viens de laisser ma voiture en révision pour qu'elle m'appelle quand c'est prêt,....j'aurai pas dû, je flippe déjà !

I don't understand your attitude.
I'll explain why I don't agree. Even if I were paranoid, it's still my right to be.

In any case, I wouldn't wish you to go through what Nicu went through, because even if it didn't ruin his life, the piracy episodes really annoyed him. God only knows how far some people will go.
Yes, and for the record, what that little joker did to Nicu back in the day, and what he's been doing lately with the "nicularo la pédale" accounts, may not affect you, but it's called harassment. It doesn't matter, we don't care.
What's the limit for these guys? Do you know what it is?

With double authentication, the creator of this club would have had more difficulty doing it.
Nicularo La Pedale FC
(even if he could have done it with his neighbour's phone).

Apart from that, everyone is entitled to their own opinion without insulting the other, aren't they? I didn't say that your position was ridiculous, but to say that people who don't want to give their phone number are a bit paranoid, I don't think that's insulting.

myforsans: Justement avec une double authentification le créateur de ce club aurait eu plus de difficultés à le faire
Nicularo La Pedale FC
(même s'il aurait pu quand même le faire avec le téléphone de son voisin-complice)

A part ça, chacun a le droit d'avoir son avis sans invectiver l'autre, non ? Je n'ai pas dit que ta position était ridicule et dire que les gens qui ne veulent pas donner leur numéro de téléphone sont un peu paranos, je ne pense pas que ce soit inusltant

account already blocked

myforsans: Justement avec une double authentification le créateur de ce club aurait eu plus de difficultés à le faire
Nicularo La Pedale FC
(même s'il aurait pu quand même le faire avec le téléphone de son voisin-complice)

A part ça, chacun a le droit d'avoir son avis sans invectiver l'autre, non ? Je n'ai pas dit que ta position était ridicule et dire que les gens qui ne veulent pas donner leur numéro de téléphone sont un peu paranos, je ne pense pas que ce soit inusltant

I may be taking some things too badly too quickly but :

• those who are against have multis, (therefore cheaters)
• are paranoid (maybe not insulting but degrading)
• you're making a mockery of my reply with your garage story (so you're trying to make a mockery of me)
  and yes, your response (not yours) was ridiculous because it was unconstructive, invective and in no way addressed the piracy issue raised.

To return to the subject:
Double authentication would probably make the multi more restrictive, but given the strategies organised to put them in place, I doubt it would prevent them from doing so to any extent. Technically and organisationally the solution also seems very complicated to put in place and the collateral effects seem to me to be more important than the result obtained.
Basically, I understand the approach and support it, but as far as the solution itself is concerned, I don't think it works. The risk/cost/benefit balance unfortunately seems very unbalanced.

For your information, I've just done a test.
I created this club: Testpiera FC
(admins, if you could please delete it).

I was able to create it between its 2 messages, 15 seconds. I used an email address that doesn't exist.
Maybe that's the first thing to do if you want to start making things more complex.

Pierabou: Pour info, je viens de faire un test.
j'ai créé ce club : Testpiera FC
(les admins, si vous pouvez le supprimer svp).

J'ai pu le créer entre ses 2 messages, soit 15 secondes. j'ai utilisé une adresse email qui n'existe pas.
c'est peut etre ca déjà la première chose à faire si on veut commencer a complexifier.

If it works, you'll be able to create it with a phone number that doesn't exist.

Pierabou: Pour info, je viens de faire un test.
j'ai créé ce club : Testpiera FC
(les admins, si vous pouvez le supprimer svp).

J'ai pu le créer entre ses 2 messages, soit 15 secondes. j'ai utilisé une adresse email qui n'existe pas.
c'est peut etre ca déjà la première chose à faire si on veut commencer a complexifier.

blocks

Pierabou: Pour info, je viens de faire un test.
j'ai créé ce club : Testpiera FC
(les admins, si vous pouvez le supprimer svp).

J'ai pu le créer entre ses 2 messages, soit 15 secondes. j'ai utilisé une adresse email qui n'existe pas.
c'est peut etre ca déjà la première chose à faire si on veut commencer a complexifier.

Oh yeah, you don't even need a valid email and you wonder how the guys manage to get 50 clubs ...
You'd have to start with that, valid email that needs to be checked to validate the creation of an account...

Pierabou: Pour info, je viens de faire un test.
j'ai créé ce club : Testpiera FC
(les admins, si vous pouvez le supprimer svp).

J'ai pu le créer entre ses 2 messages, soit 15 secondes. j'ai utilisé une adresse email qui n'existe pas.
c'est peut etre ca déjà la première chose à faire si on veut commencer a complexifier.

As I mentioned above, we have the free right to put in a bogus email that has never existed and have quintuple multi without worrying.

I suspected that you were at least aware of that, to go so far in your proposals ...
Before looking for solutions to a problem, you need to know where it starts. And here it starts at the very basis that a series of letters or numbers where you include @ and .com or .fr is enough to start the VF adventure ...

Except that creating a real 2nd, 3rd xth mailbox is still more simp'e than taking out a second, third xth telephone subscription to validate the link to validate your registration.

myforsans: Justement avec une double authentification le créateur de ce club aurait eu plus de difficultés à le faire
Nicularo La Pedale FC
(même s'il aurait pu quand même le faire avec le téléphone de son voisin-complice)

A part ça, chacun a le droit d'avoir son avis sans invectiver l'autre, non ? Je n'ai pas dit que ta position était ridicule et dire que les gens qui ne veulent pas donner leur numéro de téléphone sont un peu paranos, je ne pense pas que ce soit inusltant

I'm sorry I thwarted your plans, Lomax. You can take all the pseudonyms you want and continue your 2-bit attacks; it doesn't affect me at all. On the contrary, I'm very happy to see and know that I've really given you a hard time about your plans to explore rifts 🙂 You can always come back to the game.
You can always come back to the game, it's easy to sign up, even if security is getting a bit tougher. And when you've found another scam, we'll flush it out, block all your accounts and you'll have to start again... With, I hope, another personal insult, I'll be flattered!